C.U. Republicans Call for New Gun Policy
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In the wake of last week’s tragedy at Northern Illinois University and last April’s massacre at Virginia Tech, the seemingly endless series of school shootings has incited debate over the safety of college communities across the country.
Yesterday, the Cornell College Republicans placed about 20 signs on the Arts Quad that publicized their stance on the increasingly polarizing issue of the concealed carry of weapons. They have joined the approximately 12,000 students nationwide who are part of a grassroots effort that is advocating for concealed weapons license holders to be able to carry their weapons on campuses.
Although prevalent on the Arts Quad during the morning hours, the removal of many of the signs by the afternoon conveyed a sense of disapproval from some members of the Cornell community who support the University’s “gun-free zone” policy.
According to a handout distributed by the College Republicans on the Arts Quad, a concealed carry policy entails that those with permits would be afforded the same rights to protect themselves (and others) on college campuses as they would be most public areas such as parks, malls etc.
“[Concealed carry] is an appropriate way to make our campus safer,” said Ahmed Salem ’08, president of the C.U. Republicans. “Shootings are a rarity, but people are dying. Not doing anything is the wrong solution.”
Daniel Sherman ’10 disagrees with the concealed carry policy.
“Universities are paces of learning, and guns do not contribute in any way towards this goal. It is unfortunate that troubled individuals have committed these acts, but counseling for those individuals, while continuing to maintain a safe atmosphere via current methods, is the best way to approach the issue [of maintaining a safe campus],” he said.
Angel Rendon ’10 agreed: “Although I doubt there would be shootouts on the quad because we think that the possibility of violence on our campus merits us all being allowed to carry extremely dangerous weapons. We should work on emergency alert alternatives before we give out guns.”
The College Republicans acknowledge that not every student should be permitted to have a handgun. They state that guns would not be allowed in dorms, and in order to obtain a permit to carry a weapon, an applicant must be 21 years old, have no criminal record, must pass a background check, and in New York State, must “demonstrate need” for a permit. Because they claim this last tenet is “unnecessarily restricted,” the College Republicans would work to get it removed.
The College Republicans’ effort is part of a growing national grassroots trend centered on the premise that making a campus a “gun-free zone” is not sufficient for ensuring the safety of those on it. “Gun-free zones are inadequate for ensuring campus safety. To arbitrarily distinguish college campuses as ‘gun-free zones’ is not only senseless, but dangerous. Nothing comforts a would-be murderer more than knowing all of his potential victims are helpless. Permitting concealed carry is a step the administration should take,” they stated in the handout.
Although the College Republicans have not approached the administration yet, they intend to bring the issues surrounding concealed carry of weapons to the forefront of the administrative agenda.
“We hope people take this event seriously and understand our logical and thoughtful arguments,” Salem said.
Well aware that many critics of concealed carry feel that an abundance of guns on campus would promote violence rather than limit it, Salem asserted, “It’s not the guns that kill people, it’s people.”
Raza Hoda ’11, a member of the College Republicans, further emphasized the importance of taking action at Cornell.
“Many people think school shootings are more prevalent in the southern states, but as shown by NIU, this is not the case,” he said.
According to CNN, Utah is currently the only state where guns can be legally permitted on all campuses. In Colorado, students are allowed to carry guns on all campuses besides the University of Colorado at Boulder, where the administration has applied to rezone the campus as a restricted area. Legislation to permit concealed carry on college and university campuses is pending in Georgia, Idaho, Washington, Arizona, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana and Michigan.
College Republicans with Guns - Scary
That's just a plain scary thought - College Republicans with concealed weapons*. Who in their right mind thinks that College Republicans would use force judiciously, or are themselves mentally balanced? Allowing them to carry is just plain scary.
* = Do you really think that any appreciable number of other students actually want to carry a gun around campus?
Smarter then that
The answer to increasing gun violence is not more guns. The real answer is to put laws on the books to keep mentally ill, felons, and other dangerous individuals from owning guns in the first place. It is far to easy to get a firearm in this country.
Not only that, what makes someone who has a concealed carry possibly prepared to repond to an active shooter. Trained police officer who practive active shooter situations are only 20-30% accurate when they faced witht he situation. What makes you think somoene who watched a 2 hour video to gewt a permit would be an better? How would you ensure the guns are lokced up and not stolen out of dorm rooms or accidently discharged. Isn't it the right of the other students to be safe.
The college republicans should be smarter then this, and I am very glad that the rest of the student body actually is.
The killers we are talking
The killers we are talking about (the ones who seek out "gun free zones") are choosing the location so as to maximize the liklihood of meeting little or no resistance. Hence, we don't get police stations coming under these sorts of attacks -- regardless of how well police might actually do in countering the killer. The point is, there mere possibility of a gun being used to counter the killer causes the killer to reconsider his strategy (I didn't use his or her 'cause the killers are essentially always male).
Even Rosie understands the concept that her bodyguard is a more effective deterrent if goofs think he *might* be armed (see http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=1999).
As for ensuring that guns (or any other item that can be used as a weapon) are secured and not accidentally used, that gets back to training and practice. Unintended discharges do happen, but if you follow the rules of gun handling (never point at anything you're not willing to destroy, treat every gun as if it is loaded, keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and made the decision to fire), then the liklihood of an injury occuring is quite low.
Smart people, in my experience, look at the data.
Felons, mentally ill, and dangerous individuals
It is already agenst the law for felons, the mentally ill, and other dangerous individuals, to own guns. Last time I checked it is also agenst the law to kill peaple. I wonder if the shooters at VT and NIU read the law befor they went on a shooting spree.
Smarter then that?
Smarter Then That (Anonymous) seems to be getting their information from bad Police Dramas and ever worse news broadcasts. The ONLY school shootings that have ended other than the bad guys option has been with private handguns. The Appalachian School of Law shooting being the prime example.
Despite what Smarter Then That (Anonymous) feels private weapons are used successfully several of hundreds of thousands of times a year, generally with no shots fired. Have your counseling and warning systems but remember--when seconds count the police are only minutes away.
" It is far to easy to get a firearm in this country. " Again we disagree. Don't be so willing to shed your rights for a false sense of security. Take some handgun and self-dense lessons. You might enjoy them.
Carry Concealed
In the paraphrased words of Rbt. Heinlein, 'an armed society is a polite society'.
Don't be so quick to give up your fundamental constitutional rights. Once take, they are basically never returned...
So just being a Republican
So just being a Republican makes a person mentally unbalanced? Where is your proof for this statement. It's amazing that you rely on the first amendment to protect your bashing of the second amendment. You can't pick and choose which amendments you want enforced and which you don't. If you don't like the second amendment, amend the constitution to change it but don't just pretend it doesn't exist.
No, just being a Republican
No, just being a Republican does not make a person mentally unbalanced. Being a *College Republican* and supporting Ann Coulter (who they invited a while back), among others, does make a person mentally unbalanced, however.
Generally, guns scare most average people. Carrying lethal weapons, concealed or unconcealed, in densely populated areas is uncivilized, with the exception of law enforcement persons. More people carrying guns does nothing to solve the problem (mentally ill or distraught individuals), it merely escalates the situation. And in this situation, allowing a group already prone to intolerance to carry in populated areas is egregiously bone-headed.
Maybe I can help
"Being a *College Republican* and supporting Ann Coulter (who they invited a while back), among others, does make a person mentally unbalanced, however."
--Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing isn't it.
"Generally, guns scare most average people"
--Wrong. People who own guns are typically victims of the projection of the afforementioned scared people due to their personal lack of control. Just the same, why don't you indulge me with your definition of 'average person'. Subjective demographic classification is a key element of a baseless argument, tag, you are it.
"Carrying lethal weapons, concealed or unconcealed, in densely populated areas is uncivilized, with the exception of law enforcement persons."
--This statement about being 'uncivilized' is perverse. Civilization is PROTECTED by the display and implementation of firearms. What was the resort during the LA Riots? Private ownership and use of firearms...the police, you know, the folks you mistakenly think are there to 'protect you' went home. You and Che Obama think otherwise evidently.
"More people carrying guns does nothing to solve the problem (mentally ill or distraught individuals), it merely escalates the situation."
--Definitely incorrect. Please direct your considered attention to the documented and cited FACT that in areas where there are the least gun control laws, there is the least crime. Is it a coincidence that in DC, where the most restrictive gun laws exist, that the per-capita murder rate is far higher? Hmm, read the briefs from DC vs Heller for your eye opener. In this case, an effective armed response would have prevented the loon from killing as many as he did. You see, they CHOOSE gun free zones deliberately so they have time to reload. Concealed carry holders are hands-down the MOST law abiding citizens in this country. They take the responsbility seriously, and embrace said responsibility soberly and intelligently. Your expressed opinion is ill conceived, not based in fact, and reflects your ignorance in this subject.
"And in this situation, allowing a group already prone to intolerance to carry in populated areas is egregiously bone-headed."
--Shame on you for the blisteringly emotional outburst, although typical of a person that can't tell their thoughts from their emotions. Remember, think your thoughts, feel your emotions, don't mix that up. It makes it too easy to identify you as a feel-good liberal.
Finally, if you can set aside your emotions/thinking issue, I invite you to look at the briefs submitted in DC vs Heller at http://www.abanet.org/publiced/preview/briefs/march08.shtml
The citations and references are rock-solid.
my humble .02
Silence
Naturally, the best way to
Naturally, the best way to deal with a gun problem is to add more guns to the situation.
Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people.
Bravo
I’m pleased that people have brought this issue to Cornell. While I am by no means a Republican I am a strong advocate of CCW. I hope this subject can continue to be approached without becoming a Democrat/Republican issue. People who understand the use and responsibility of carrying are no greater threat than the dedicated photographer who always carries a digital camera with them so they can capture an event or moment in case something happens. Why should the rules regarding this at a campus be different from the rules the moment you step into public?
Gun-Free Zones
I work in Chicago, another "gun free zone." And I am university-educated, holding a PhD in the sciences. I like the idea...the idea that we want to be safe and secure, and the assertion that gun free zones make - it's in essence a philosophical statement.
But that's where my support for such zones ends. Like many other policies, they feel good to those without a firm grasp on reality. We live in reality, and the reality is that anyone, at any time, who choses to disobey the "gun free zone" policy, will carry whatever they want onto a college campus, or into my work building. Does the "handicapped parking zone" sign physically keep you from parking there? No. A willingness to comply with the law, and a respect for the handicapped keeps you from parking there. And doesn't it bug you when a perfectly healthy person pulls up and parks there? They do it despite the "handicapped parking zone" sign. Gun free zones are especially dangerous because those well-intentioned folks who abide the policy are necessarily unprotected in the outside chance a gun free zone scofflaw decides to "get famous."
Somehow, however, some people still like this idea of a "gun free zone." Perhaps it's the safety in numbers - they are more comfortable being "gun free" with a bunch of other, like-minded people who espouse the "gun free zones for safety" mentality. And further, if, God forbid, some insane person comes on the campus to cause havoc, at least the gun free zone supporters will be together as they defenselessly try to scramble out of harm's way. The lack of self-respect and self-reliance it takes to think this way is disturbing to me.
But forget about ideals. If you support the policy of a gun free zone, I ask you this: Are you willing to put a sign on your front door that reads "Gun-Free Home?"
Campus Gun-Free Zones
"A shoot-out is better than a massacre!"
I don't disagree with Mr.
I don't disagree with Mr. Salem because he is a Republican, I disagree with him because this is one of the most moronic things I have ever heard.
Against Cornell's concealed elitism policy.
Just because most college republicans nation-wide are fools, doesn't mean ours have to be. The Cornell Republicans support the most outrageous and least well-reasoned causes. Hungry for any kind of exposure? With so many conservative ideas genuinely deserving of debate, please guys (and gals) do your education proud and quit playing for the tabloids.
Republicans! You are *NOT* Walker Texas Ranger
I'm astounded that the Cornell Republicans would use the tragedy of recent campus gun violence to try to further their insane dreams of being a TV hero (a la "Walker Texas Ranger").
As one commenter pointed out above, the probability of a person carrying a concealed firearm actually improving a situation involving gun violence on campus is laughable. The probability of making the situation much worse is high.
Want to be a real hero? Train in a martial art or as a emergency medical technician. You would then have a much higher probability of having a positive effect on a chaotic occurrence of random violence.
The Cornell Republicans have shown that they are completely out of touch with reality (again). Turn off your TV sets please, it's rotting your brain.
Republicans aren't crazy...
Republicans aren't crazy... closet murderers... or mindless! Everybody keeps thinking "...it can't happen here...". But it happened at the University of Texas-Austin, in August of '66... University of Iowa, in November of '91... San Diego State, in August of '96... University of Arkansas, in August of '00... Virginia's Appalachian School of Law, in January of '02... University of Arizona's Nursing College, in October, '02... Shepard University, in September, '06... Virginia Tech in '07... and Northern Illinois in '08. It is a documented fact that violent crime has markedly dropped in the states allowing the carrying of concealed weapons... no "shooter", no matter how crazy, wants to take the chance of attacking someone who might shoot back... all the gun laws in the world haven't prevented felons from getting the weapons they need to prey upon those law-abiding citizens unable to protect themselves! Here in Michigan, we hope that they let the properly licensed secondary school teachers, college students and citizenry carry concealed weapons for their own protection... because it's a lot easier to carry a gun than a cop.
It worked in '66
Look up the facts in Texas, 1966. Students were credited for reducing casualties because they fired back, and the sniper could therefore not take careful aim.
As gun right advocates
As gun right advocates (which I am one of) are fond of saying: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. The problem is not guns. It's people. Precisely, it's people coming off powerful drugs without adequate supervision by those charged with their care. It's been the case over and over around the country and Ithaca has had its share of violence as a result of this failed health policy as well.
The problem is a failed mental health system...not gun rights, or lackthereof.
?!?
“Universities are paces of learning, and guns do not contribute in any way towards this goal..."
All that hooking up in the stacks isn't really conducive to learning either.
Cornell Republicans are Dead Wrong
I was extremely disturbed to read that the CU Republican community actually supports the right of all students to carry "concealed weapons" (i.e. handguns) on campus. Although I respect their right to self-defense, I suspect this position reflects students' level of fear rather than any rational, well thought out policy.
Of course the students are scared. We all are. But greater latitude in obtaining and carrying firearms is most certainly not an appropriate response. Think about the shooter at NIU. This person had no criminal record, passed the background check with flying colors, and easily obtained 3 handguns and a shotgun. If he had not been able to do this, I sincerely doubt that killing spree would have happened at all.
Why didn't it raise a red flag that one single 20-something year old male sought to buy three handguns? For what purpose could this individual possibly have needed such an arsenal?! Let's not kid ourselves, handguns are for shooting human beings. A person who buys three of them over a short time period can't be thinking purely along the lines of self-defense....especially considering that he owned a shotgun as well. When this man began acting "erratically" (whatever that means), people around him should have been clued in to assist him in getting help!
Guns have absolutely no place on a college campus. Allowing students to carry concealed weapons represents a profound violation of the rights of non gun-toting students at Cornell. I sincerely doubt those who don't own guns would respond to such a policy by going out and buying handguns of their own!
Guns are far too readily available to the general populous as it is. Open your eyes. What is more important to the owner of a gun shop - the potential welfare of some vaguely defined group of innocent people, or selling guns?! Their proverbial hind quarters are covered as soon as the buyer passes the test for ownership. Anything that happens after that is held to be the fault of the gun owner, not the seller. Since the sellers have no worries about liability in these cases, they don't have much of an incentive to question a buyer's intent when purchasing a weapon.
People and STUDENTS IN PARTICULAR: Please, if you observe someone you know behaving in a manner you consider suspicious or unstable, DO intervene! You don't have to confront the person. You can call any of the various counseling services available to members of the Cornell Community, contact the person's RA, or even call Campus Security! What's the worst that could happen? Maybe the person you called about will be mildly embarrassed to get a call or visit from some campus official and have to explain that he/she was simply having a bad day. I think most students would rather pay that small price than have a seriously disturbed dorm mate or classmate go on a rampage. In fact, I think people in generally would feel more "cared for" and less alienated--a factor that is disturbingly present in so many of these mass shooting cases.
Sincerely, Lisa King
Former Cornell Employee AND
Former Cornell Student AND
Mother of a current Cornell Student
And...
Would it be any consolation if instead of multiple handguns, he had just bought one and alot more clips for that one in particular?
As to concealed carry, from what I hear, Illinois has a no issue law on that. For some odd reason, the NIU shooter violated that law along with the murder statutes.
Actually Lisa...
A great number of gun store owners are not heartless capitalist, out for a quick buck. Most are actually pretty responsible and will refuse a sale if anything seems suspicious. My local gun store and range has several signs up that say "It;s your right to own a firearm, but our right to refuse the sale".
We need to stop thinking of campuses as peaceful, loving utopias when the evidence does not bear this out. Often campus communities are the most crime plagued. Not just with incidents like those at NIU and VA Tech, but things like rape, armed robbery and assault. Are guns the absolute answer, no. But they remain a useful tool. Let us look at 20 years of right to carry laws in the United States.
48 states allow some form of Concealed Carry. Nearly every state, especially those that went to "shall issue", heard the cries of blood in the streets, shoot out at the OK corral and so forth. All arguments to appeal to base emotions. The anecdotal evidence does not bear this out. Most states have seen a drop in crime as a result of liberalizing gun laws and providing more access to firearms by lawful citizens. You often find stories in the local papers on Concealed Carry Licensees stopping violent crime against themselves by firing back or at the mere presence of the firearm. Some have even helped mitigate the effects of mass shootings. The Colorado church shooting last year was stopped by a female parishioner with a CHL and a concealed weapon. The Utah Trolley Square mall shooting was stopped by a CHL holder and his firearm. In Pearl, Mississippi a faculty member retrieved a pistol from his vehicle and confronted the shooter in the parking lot. The shooter stated later his intention was to travel to another campus to continue his shooting spree. All 9 Utah State colleges, Colorado State and Blue Ridge community college allow concealed carry on campus. In 60 combined semesters, there have been no incidents related to concealed carry licensees.
What about cars on campus? Surely with the amount of students that commute back and forth to the various campuses across the nation, the rampant alcohol and drug abuse that goes on, combined with high stress, immaturity and raging emotions we should ban all cars and create a no car zone. It's funny we never apply the same arguments against guns to any other product in the united states. Now, god forbid, if my little sister where to be killed going to prom this year by a drunk driver, should I get to sue the car dealer that sold the driver his car? The bar that sold him liquor? The liquor store? Ford/GM/Honda? Liability is to the person that commits the act, no one else.
I do agree with your last paragraph. There are numerous ways to deal with violence on campus. better responsibility to recognize those in need of help, looking at some of the background checks in relation to weapons purchases, better notification when incidents happen on campus, better training for our school police and so on.
And yes, Concealed Carry Licensees can be apart of the solution.
Cornell Republicans, by Lisa
Lisa, I agree with Carl in Chicago and wish to add the following.
Contrary to your belief that, "Guns are far too readily available to the general populous as it is", since 1968 guns have been much harder to purchase and possess by the "general populas". You consistently use the general term student, students or all students, as the class of people that should not be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. You state, “I was extremely disturbed to read that the CU Republican community actually supports the right of all students to carry "concealed weapons" (i.e. handguns) on campus.” and “Allowing students to carry concealed weapons…” however, never in your statements did you recognize or use the term “concealed carry permit”. Actually the Cornell College Republicans:
1) “…joined the approximately 12,000 students nationwide who are part of a grassroots effort that is advocating for concealed weapons license holders to be able to carry their weapons on campuses”
2) “According to a handout distributed by the College Republicans on the Arts Quad, a concealed carry policy entails that those with permits would be afforded the same rights to protect themselves (and others) on college campuses as they would be most public areas such as parks, malls etc.”
Personal self-defense and protection, is a God-given inalienable right and responsibility, not to be feared, resisted, or diminished at the boundaries of public funded educational boundaries by qualified, proficient law abiding concealed carry permit holders. Students, parents, relatives or visitors with business, should be allowed to carry a concealed firearm if they possess a valid concealed carry permit.
Please show us where, in the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights and/or the Constitution of The State of New York, it states, “Allowing students to carry concealed weapons represents a profound violation of the rights of non gun-toting students at Cornell”. Your fears and resistance seem to be based on emotion, politics and ignorance of firearms, people, and American history. Most current state and federal gun control laws are in response to agendas promoted by people and organizations with political, economic and elitist social visions. The Civil War, industrialism, prohibition, academia and the assassination of the Kennedys and Dr. King all provided the emotion and excuse to try to disarm the general public.
You say you respect "their" right to self-defense, but go on to describe why you believe they should not be allowed to exercise that right. Additionally you insinuate, by your signature associations, you have some special insight or qualifications, however your penning seems to suggest you are actually just another anti-gun, anti-self-defense and anti-Second Amendment elitist, not well informed and who misuses written text for your own agenda.
Larry
(H.S.GED holder) AND
(former Marine 1964-68)AND
(former community college student)AND
(former reserve deputy sheriff)AND
(married 40 years, retired, father and grandfather)
On reflection: carying on campus
There is no rational,statistically based argument to support safety enhancement on college campuses via no gun policies. During my undergrad and graduate career at an eastern university a generation ago,it was not uncommon for students to keep a pistol,rifle or shotgun in a frat or sorority house or dorm room or car for recreational shooting or hunting. There was even an ROTC indoor range on campus. Concealed cary wasn't an issue since campus shootings were rare enough to be below the radar screen of concerns. But regretably,today things are different. Putative causes fill volumes but no objective evidence serves as a basis to impune guns or the screened and trained people who legally cary conceiled through most of the country. Conceiled cary laws usually coincide with low rates of violent crime. This is nowhere better exemplified than in Israel where armed staff in schools raise no eyebrows. Also, teachers and group leaders there are required to be armed on field trips, often carying military assualt weapons. They have their terrorist concerns, but if they have any home grown homicidal nut cases like we do, these people seem to know better than to try and pull off a classroom massacre. I don't think it has ever happened there. What would the effect be here? The few colleges and universities that allow this have had no problems, while zero gun policies have proven to present no obsticle to the killers. Isn't insanity defined as an action that brings about an undesirable result, being repeated over and over again, and expecting a different outcome each time. Perhaps neither guns or gun regulation should be in the hands of the insane.
College Republicans should
College Republicans should take their guns and go to Iraq to help our brave soldiers
Balance of Outcomes
I think we are disagreeing without acknowledging what the others are saying. I don't think people doubt their assertion that concealed-carry weapons could end school shootings when they appear, but you have to weigh the potential saved lives versus the almost certain skyrocketing of suicide, assault and murder rates that would accompany such a policy.
Cornell is a campus notorious for suicide, mainly because the gorges provide a CONVENIENT and fast method to do it. Allowing handguns on campus would be disastrous in allowing stressed students under pressure to have an EVEN MORE convenient way of offing-oneself (or hurting others as in the tragic NIU case).
Look at the Nathan Poffenbarger stabbing a while back? How much worse would the outcome have been if the assailant had a gone and not a switch blade? The Union student certainly would have been killed rather than wounding.
Anyone who has spent any time in collegetown bars or the frats see fights occur all the time. Why not all guns to enter the mix?
Could CCW stop some shootings? Sure. But while you're packing heat waiting for a rare snapcase, dozens of students would likely take their own lives and others.