S.A. Broaches Concealed Carry
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Students say more guns would protect campus
February 29, 2008 - 1:00amAt yesterday’s Student Assembly meeting, Mark Coombs ’08, director of elections, and Ahmed Salem ’08, an S.A. representative at-large and chair of the Cornell College Republicans, presented Resolution 17, which calls for “Concealed Carry [of weapons] on Campus.”
Although the resolution was originally brought up as “new business,” members of the S.A. approved a motion to move the resolution to “business of the day.” This meant that members would have the opportunity to vote on the resolution yesterday, rather than waiting a week, as is the rule with “new business.”
Coombs, who is also a Sun columnist, and Salem introduced the resolution by reading it aloud to the S.A. members and approximately 20 members of the community in attendance. The basis for the resolution is recent school shootings, such as the one that occurred earlier this month at Northern Illinois University.
More guns: From left, Ahmed Salem ’08, S.A. at-large representative, and Mark Coombs ’08, S.A. director of elections, present a resolution calling for concealed carry on campus. Coombs also cited Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr.’s (R-Utah) legislation last year allowing concealed carry on all public university campuses in the state. Coombs said he hoped the resolution would be approached “intellectually and seriously.”
He also said the resolution was introduced because he “cares deeply about protecting the students,” and saw the resolution as “a way to increase safety on campus.”
At one point S.A. President C. J. Slicklen ’09 had to ask members of the S.A. to “curb [their] side comments.”
After the resolution was presented, Elan Greenberg ’08, a representative at-large and the former president of the S.A., called the resolution “terrifying” and said that he thought it was only a matter of time after the resolution was passed before there would be a “deadly accident.”
Finally, after several minutes of arguments from both sides, Asa Craig ’11, the freshmen S.A. representative, called for the resolution to be tabled until next Thursday’s meeting. Both sides agreed that this would give S.A. members time to think more deeply about the issue and come up with adequate support for their arguments.
If the resolution passes, Slicklen will ask the administration to do what it can to change current New York State law, which does not allow citizens to conceal and carry guns on college campuses. Citizens over 21 may conceal and carry guns on public property.
Before the meeting, Salem stressed that their resolution was “not a fringe issue at all,” citing Utah as an example of the cause’s acceptance.
After the meeting concluded, he said he hoped the S.A. members would “take as long as it takes so that people vote based on facts and evidence and not their preconceived notions about guns.”
He said that the issue at Cornell was not about the right to conceal and carry weapons in general, but rather to allow people to conceal and carry them legally on campus.
Vince Hartman ’08, the Arts & Sciences representative, said, “This is not a Republican issue,” adding that he plans on supporting Democrat Hillary Clinton in the upcoming presidential election.
Guns on Campus: "S.A. Broaches Concealed Carry," 2/29/08
One governor out of 50 foolishly signs a law allowing students to carry concealed weapons on campus. Sorry, Mr. Salam, but 1/50 looks like fringe to me.
Mr. Elan's argument is good enough reason for the SA to reject this preposterous resolution.
Just counting on the rarity of armed attacks on campus is a better defense than letting adolescents tote guns.
$
Whatever changes may be made in NYS law, I can't imagine giving a $ as an alumnus to CU administration in favor of this.
Sorry, but this is all
Sorry, but this is all ridiculous. I might trust myself to carry a concealed weapon, but I certainly don't trust everyone on campus to carry a concealed weapon. Of all people, why would Mr. Salam want people to be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. I'm not trying to sound rude, and I know this is a little crass, but if you are visually impaired, why would you want people around you to carry concealed weapons? I know if I couldn't see, even the thought of this would be terrifying. I don't even know why Mr. Salem is pushing this issue as it clearly isn't in his best interest, let alone the best interest of the Cornell community as a whole.
First off, that was a
First off, that was a cowardly personal attack on Mr. Salem. I know him to be a very intellectual guy who has nothing but love for everyone. In regards to his stand on this issue, I would argue for it. The purpose is not to encourage gun toting by a bunch of idiots, we're all very educated individuals. The main purpose is to discourage anyone willing to pull the trigger on fellow students. Think about it, the V-Tech student was on an almost TWO HOUR rampage. How many lives would have been saved if a competent student had a concealed weapon and laid out the gunman? How many family members now wish this was a possibility back then? Does it take something to happen for us to realize that such an idea is not that bad? Most importantly, how many of us would feel safer knowing nobody would be stupid enough to pull out a weapon with the possibility of the next guy having one and fully damn capable of shooting one off before the gunman had a chance to reach for his waist? Basically, I feel Cornell Police are useless, the most exercise they get is retrieving lost keys. There are almost 21,000 people on campus each day. And unless Cornell puts our tuition to use by hiring police officers that would actually patrol (whether by bike, foot, or car) more frequently, I say we put our safety in our own hands.
Guns on Cornell Campus
My mother (Arts '49) still gets upset when she sees photos of armed students who took over the Straight in April, 1969. My niece, a student at Va. Tech, also has a perspective about keeping guns off a college campus. I strongly believe that "Resolution 17" brought up in this week's meeting was raised by two badly-misguided students who apparently have wasted their time on the Cornell campus and are now being manipulated by others. These students appear to have so little common sense that University leaders may have to give serious consideration to not offering them diplomas. Cornell students should forcefully reject the twisted logic put forth in this resolution.
Terrified?
It is very revealing that Mr. Greenberg is terrified. There are two types of leaders: those who trust the people they’re leading and those who feel they have to act benevolently on behalf of those they lead. A true man of the people will feel secure with his fellow students armed, but an elitist will be terrified.
"Preconceived Notions About Guns?"
"After the meeting concluded, he said he hoped the S.A. members would 'take as long as it takes so that people vote based on facts and evidence and not their preconceived notions about guns.'"
Have we been unfairly accusing guns of doing things they haven't done? Have we been mixing guns up with something else-flowers, French horns-all these years? Have we been limiting the potential of guns by always thinking of them in the same old way?
Preconceived notions about people are generally bad, but about objects? They're usually created with a specific application in mind, and though they can often be creatively repurposed, it's generally not a moral fault to think of them as being useful in one way and one way only. I'm not going to get angry at myself for failing to consider whether a gun might, in fact, make a good poet. But you're right, Cornell Republicans: let's stop being prejudiced against guns and really take some time to think.
OK, I took some time to think. Allowing 18-21 year-old-olds (or anyone, really) to carry around concealed guns is a terrible, terrible idea. The benefit of whatever protection such a scheme might offer against an NIU/Virginia Tech-style massacre-and it's not clear it would offer any protection whatsoever-is far outweighed by the risk of accidental shootings, the increased likelihood of violent crimes of passion/drunkenness, and the sizable negative psychological effect on the greater student body of having some subsection "packing." This last point is crucial: do we want to live in a society in which everyone you pass on the street might be carrying a concealed weapon? Is this really a desirable end, or even a desirable means to an end? No-and that goes double for a college campus, which is supposed to be a place of open inquiry.
The thought of a maniac coming into a college classroom and opening fire is frightening indeed, but there are steps that can be taken-better training for RAs so that they can spot residents who might potentially be sinking into madness, better counseling services, etc.-to decrease the likelihood of such an event that do not involve putting the campus community at an even greater risk for other types of violent incidents. But Republicans will be Republicans (in general, of course), whether it's at the national or college level: any act of violence can be used to instill fear in people, making them more likely to agree to an abrogation of their civil liberties or those of others or, in this case, an unnecessary and dangerous expansion of their gun-carrying rights. I'm sure the S.A. will shoot this down, and I'm sure the Cornell Republicans will whine that people were being biased against guns. I am biased against guns, and proud of it.
Vote Based on the Facts
This initiative is an extrememly important issue that I commend Mr. Salem and Coombs for bringing to the forefront of the Cornell and NY State's attention. I am not a Cornell student but I do attend a University and will soon be licensed to carry a concealled weapon. Why? Because I have realized that there are a lot of crazy people out there who have no respect for me or my loved ones. The police cannot be everywhere all at once and there may come a time where I will need to protect myself.
The RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS is not a judgement call it is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, right up there with the RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. That is right the same document that gives you the right to tell the predident to go to hell is the same one that says you can carry a firearm to protect you and your family. Sure guns may seem scary to people but that is only because you hear about criminals (80% of which obtain their firearms illegally) using them. You do not hear about he millions of gun incidents that do not occur by those carrying firearms legally.
To A.R.M's question of do I want to live in a world where everyone standing next to me can have a gun the answer is I already do, and so do you. That is unless I or you happen to be in class. I am not against regulating areas that you can carry a gun, courthouses and airplanes are highly regulated and that is fine but at the same time everyone is screened at every enterance, on a campus no one is screened and anybody student or not could walk into a classroom with the knowledge that the law abidding citizens inside will have no way to defend themselves.
We must remember that most states only allow people OVER 21 to carry a concealled weapon this is a small percentage of the college community. Basically only seniors would be able to bring a gun to class. Not every drunk freshman would be running around with a weapon at frat parties.
I encourage those who feel threatened by such legislation to do some research about the true crime statistics involving states that allow concealled carry and the statistics of crims committed by people who are allowed to carry a concealled weapon before dismissing Mr. Salem and Coombs as misguided. We must remember that not everything our mother or niece at Virgina Tech tell us is the end all be all.
http://www.concealedcampus.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry
Sigh
In all fairness, if all I knew about guns what what I saw on television, I'd be scared of them too. So far the comments have way too much of the same sky is falling arguments that we get every time a proposal to liberalize self defense regulations comes up. They never come true but they never go away. I just can't help feeling I should be able to expect more from Cornell.
The fact is that everywhere in this country the person standing next to you can have a gun. Those are the bad guys. There are no laws stopping them. Not even in the hallowed halls of Cornell can you be sure the person next to you is unarmed. Don't even think about stepping into Ithaca. (There, that ought to keep them awake at night.)
Most places in this country the person standing next to you may have a gun. These are the good guys. Forty-eight states allow some form of citizen concealed carry for self defense. Even New York. Over thirty of those handle it like a driver's license. If you want the full experience just go east to Vermont. If you have a handgun as soon as you cross the border you may lock it, load it and put it in your pocket. No permit, no training and no problem. Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. Odd how that works out that way.
New York is different. That is what I wonder about this proposal. I know you have to start somewhere. The article mentions that college campuses are singled out in New York law as gun free zones. But even after you fix that problem a New Yorker can't carry a gun unless their county judge gives their approval. Tompkin county is notorious for their judge abusing their discretion in this matter.
No one in Tompkin county is going to be carrying a gun anytime soon (except for those bad guys).
Got that? No matter how the vote goes the gun count on campus will not change by even one gun. Chill, people! Nothing is going to happen here. It's still New York!
Good luck and thanks to the people working on this. You have a chance to make a statement. It may even be an important statement. Don't blow this chance out of ignorance. Don't get upset because I call you ignorant either. You can be the world's expert in your field and still know nothing of guns and how their availability affects crime.
Putting the 2nd FIRST!
Cool! I 100% support lawful condealed carry for adult students. As a Jewess in the US, I want to remind everyone that America wasn't won with a registered gun, and that criminals are stopped by FIREARMS, not by talk. That is why all REAL Americans put our 2nd Amendment FIRST!