Live Blogging the Vice Presidential Debate

Sun Editors David Wittenberg and Katie Engelhart live blogged the Vice Presidential debate along with a panel of guests from the left and the right. Below you'll find a minute-by-minute breakdown of the pre-debate coverage and of each and every line from both Sen Joe Biden and Gov. Sarah Palin. Who won the night? Let us know in the comments section.

Click here to jump to comments [1], and click here to leave a comment of your own [2]!

10:54 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Thanks to all of our readers for following the debate with us tonight. It was a lot of fun on all counts. Look for our panel to return both in print and online throughout this election, and certainly during the remaining two presidential debates and on election night. Good night!

10:48 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I think the point is that tonight wasn't a game-changer. But I'm still uncomfortable with this celebration of Palin's restraint. Fine. No major screw-ups. But since when is not screwing up synonymous with being successful? She turned down an opportunity to address McCain's health policy in a meaningful way and also refused to offer substantive answers to questions posed about the war.

Verdict: She didn't harm her party. But she sure as hell didn't help.

At the end of the day, tonight turned out to be a non-event.

Katie Engelhart, signing out.

Off to watch footage of the Canadian debate I missed to talk with you fine folks.

10:43 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: People underestimated Sarah Palin. While Biden seemed coached and spoke on each policy point like clockwork, Sarah spoke to the camera, and to the American people about what needs to change. She connected as a middle class American, small town woman, hockey mom, and PTA member. But she also mentioned her track record and plans going forward. I may have already been a fan, but she certainly impressed me.

Next time we should video blog so you all can witness my killer victory dance.

Have a great night.

10:39 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: It's a gangbang in the Situation Room. I hope everyone enjoys the post-debate punditry.

Again, no clear winner in this debate, but points to Palin for making herself credible again and ending a terrible week with Couric. We'll see how the McCain campaign decides to use Palin in the coming weeks in the campaign, will her press availability increase? Will she appear by herself more often? Will she talk about foreign policy more frequently.

Note: David Gergen says "Conservatives have reason to be happy." Agreed Gergen, that's a rare point for me. Begala says Biden "consistently nailed McCain." What?

And with that I'm signing off. Good night everyone.

10:39 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: And tangentially, does Palin's focus on Israel suggest a big McCain play for the Jewish vote? Are they afraid about losing Florida?

10:37 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: So, let's zoom out a bit everybody to wrap up. What's the take home point from this debate? How will it play as the news and electoral cycles pick back up during the Sunday shows and early next week? What's the message?

And also, what should young voters take from this debate?

10:36 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Geraldine Ferrarro was criticized for family issues, just as Palin has been. Neither one were given enough credit for their experience and views, the media purely focused on more superficial features and issues. It's disappointing, but it's true.

10:35 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I don't think this changes the race at all, but it is notable. Perhaps they'll let her actually hold a press conference now, God forbid?

10:34 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Yet the salient point Rachel and Jordan make is that someone did his or her job during that crash course in Sedona. This is not the same Sarah Palin we saw interviewing with Katie Couric.

10:34 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: They aren't Ferraro-ing Palin. They are going-against-Ferraro-ing Joe Biden / Barack Obama. The parallel isn't between the women, but rather about how these men will conduct themselves around a woman.

10:34 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Wolf Blitzer calls the affair "relatively polite." Agreed (Although Palin did get more cracks in)

10:33 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: The only game changer here is that people are going to have to stop Geraldine Ferrarro-ing Sarah Palin. She clearly is bright and articulate and can handle the pressure.

The worst that could have happened is for Palin to have slipped up, but she presented herself very well. Why is her mic still on and Biden's is off?

10:33 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: She re-habbed a little, but the Tina Fey image will prove indelible, I think.

10:32 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Hmmm I'm uncomfortable with Biden's whole 'I want to restore things to the good all moral days... (Go God)' finale.

10:32 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Here comes the patriotism contest! These guys are running for President and Vice President. I don't think there's any question they're patriotic.

10:32 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin is really into it right now, great Reagan quote drop.

But yes, boring overall, like Biden, rather would be watching "The Office."

I disagree, I think Palin helped rehabilitate her image a little by holding her own against Biden. Again, the DNC wasted a huge opportunity here.

10:32 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Speaking of invoking Reagan, you have got to imagine the Republicans — pitting McCain against Obama — have got to be scared of the outcome of this election, much as the Democrats, forced to run Carter and then Mondale against a force of charisma like Reagan, must have felt at a built-in disadvantage.

10:30 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: This debate, much as the last, has been pretty boring. No huge breakthroughs. No tectonic shifts in the playing field. No major gaffes or take-downs. Each of these debates have been as-expected. I say there's no game-changer here.

10:28 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: But funny history.

10:28 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Joe Biden is doing a good job in focusing the debate back on to the Vice Presidents. He needs to show us why he is a strong candidate rather than revert to broad declarations about the Obama ticket that Palin can counter without too much intellectual travail.

10:28 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: McCain's learned lessons from Charles Keating. Ancient history.

10:27 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden's learned lessons from Mike Mansfield and Neil Kinnock.

10:25 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: McCain doesn't have to disgree with his party of every issue to be considered a maverick. If he did he would be called a democrat.

10:24 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: No you can't. But you have to admit he could have thought of a better answer than what he said.

David, you make a good point about the horrible strategy the DNC crafted coming into this debate. It was a Bob Shrum-like timid performance. The fact that he just attacked McCain in an extensive manner now has to be unsettling for Obama nuts.

10:24 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Yes, Biden!

It really was a mistake for Palin to try to drive home the McCain-as-flexible-Washington-outsider point. Obama owns "change" already. McCain should be playin up his Washinton experience.

10:24 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Wha-bam! Biden finally came out of his shell and really hit McCain.

10:23 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Finally! "He has been no maverick."

10:22 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Palin is right that if this was McCain v. Biden it might make McCain the change candidate. But it's McCain v. Obama. Biden hasn't driven that home, Jordan, and in doing so he's letting Palin drive the narrative.

10:22 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Yeah, Jordan. But Biden just brought up his dead wife. And you can't fight that.

10:22 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin, nice job picking up the change rhetoric. Biden really dropped the ball there.

10:21 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin does a good job defending the ticket. Biden makes a self-deprecating remark, but he said that he won't change? Are you kidding me Barack Obama is all about change Washington, Joe Biden is Washington!!

10:20 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: "I'm not going to change...35 years in public office"... kind of contradictory to Obama's theme of Change

10:19 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: CJ pointed out a bit ago that these two candidates' states have all of six electoral votes between them.

10:19 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin is repeating herself, about her credentials....

What happened to self-deprecation?? I'm ok with being the most hated man on campus right now.

10:18 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Question: will Sarah Palin know what an Achilles heel is?

10:18 pm by Sam Levine [7]: What's the population of Alaska, again?

10:14 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Sarah Palin just thanked the Constitution.

10:13 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: It was a compliment, how can you take offense to that?

10:13 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Sarah for the love of G-D, stop saying "darnit," "dog-gone-it," STOP IT! This isn't the 1950's, "Leave it to Beaver." Talk about going backwards?

10:12 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: McCain might not be the Mr. Congeniality of the Senate but Sarah Palin was Miss Congeniality in Miss Alaska pageant, just sayin'.

10:12 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Bad form of Palin to get on Biden's wife "her reward is in heaven." None of Palin's business!

10:12 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I understand that, Dave. But I'm not sure I share your absolute cynicism with respect to McCain's record. I personally believe that McCain WAS a candidate of the center. And I think his voting record shows that he USED TO reach across party lines. Unfortunately, his choice of this smiling broad as his Veep is evidence of his radical right sell-out.

It's ironic then that Palin talks about McCain "reaching across the isle" when her very nomination shows McCain's movement away from this moderation.

10:12 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Right David, Biden did better when he talked about his belief in Obama. His monologue on his populist credentials just seemed disingenuous.

10:12 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: She just said "Say it ain't so, Joe." and "Doggone it!" in the same sentence. It's Biden vs. Elmer Fudd!

10:11 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Factcheck: there is actually a Main Street in Wasilla, AK.

Now we're on Union Street in Wilmington. Where's College Ave?

10:10 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: He has been bipartisan for years. He isn't winning Mr. Congeniality from the GOP anytime soon because he has been very outspoken on a number of issues. John Kerry asked him to run as a VP, that's how many fans he has on both sides of the aisle. This has been a bitter campaign because you have two people running: 1. The most qualified person to ever run for the oval office. 2. The most unqualified person to ever run.

The Democratic ticket should have been Biden/Obama not Obama/Biden.

10:10 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: But given that, given that campaigns are by definition vicious, why does John McCain continue to pretend that they aren't, and that his campaign has not had a part in it?

10:09 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: I hate to say it but Biden just looked very presidential.

10:09 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: All the way back to the election of 1800, Jordan. I know.

10:08 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Enough crying about the "most bitter campaign in recent memory." Pundits use that line every single election cycle.

10:07 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: We don't praise politicians for blindly following the party line. What I'm saying is that we should not support this false bipartisanship for the sake of making everyone feel good. John McCain, for years, has preached this politics of bipartisanship and unity and togetherness and yet has turned around when the cameras were off and allowed his advisers to run one of the most vicious, most bitter campaigns in recent memory. So when he says he wants to stop being "partisan," it's dissimulation. It's dishonest. That's what I take issue with.

10:05 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I agree with Rachel. Why do we praise politicians for blindly following the party line?

10:04 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: "Americans are cravin' that straight talk." Hah.

10:03 pm by Sam Levine [7]: She sounds like she's about to ask Biden out on a date

10:03 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Reaching across the aisle is not overrated because it shows that a politician is willing to decide issue-to-issue and not just vote as a puppet of his/her own party.

10:03 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Bosniaks is a word. No gaffe there.

10:03 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: This is new: boots on the ground in Darfur?

10:02 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Joe Biden sounds like he would rather be watching "The Office." He's mailing this one in.

10:02 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Bosniacs?

10:02 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: My vote is he's bored.

10:01 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: So what? These parties disagree on huge, substantive issues. "Reaching across the aisle" is overrated, and I wouldn't expect it from politicians of conviction in either party. (Bailout being a notable exception)

10:01 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: How very politically nuanced of Palin to bring up NATO.

10:00 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Is Biden out of breath from standing for too long? Or is he just bored?

10:00 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: "Barack Obama" and "reaching across the aisle" should never be paired in the same sentence given his voting record.

10:00 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: And if he subtly pressured her into making a mistake.

9:59 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: I disagree Dave. He may have been instructed to fight to a draw, but this could have been the nail in the coffin for Palin and the Republican ticket if he performed better.

9:59 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Can we PLEASE get a president who doesn't have a ranch this time?

9:59 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Thank you, Joe. Two wars. Not one. Two wars. Two distinct origins. Two distinct strategies.

9:58 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: I like how Joe Biden talks about himself in the third person

9:58 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Biden's mandate is to refrain from taking a shot at her until he fights this to a draw. Her credibility's been shot since weeks ago. Biden just needs to make sure he doesn't commit a gaffe.

9:57 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Sam, looks like that time she spent at the Arizona ranch did some good.

Palin is controlling the pace right now.

9:56 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I agree with Sam. Her doubletalk is so odious, but it's working.

9:56 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Biden sounds like a broken record. TAKE A SHOT AT PALIN ALREADY.

9:56 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Sidenote: I once ran into John Kerry at Rosh Hashanah services.

9:55 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: "Past is prolouge" is never a good joke Joe.

9:55 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Palin's been coached well. When she can't answer a question, she talks about something else. Very effective, seriously.

9:55 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I wonder if Sarah Palin went to Rosh Hashanah services?

9:55 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Obama was opposed to the West Bank vote? Was he consulting with his friend Rashid Khalidi?

Say what you want about Plain, Dave, but Obama has little credibility on the Israel issue.

P.S. Biden "hiss" ...Bad News Bears

9:55 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Yes but the important point is that Iraq, since the beginning, has been a mistake partly in that it was a distraction from Afghanistan — and Pakistan, and Lebanon, and Russia, and North Korea, and every other legitimate foreign policy issue we've ignored for the past seven years of mismanagement.

The importance of Afghanistan is a political point about the nature of the terrorist threat in 2003 — which was in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in those mountains and with Osama bin Laden. There was no "Al Qaeda in Iraq" until George W. Bush invaded Iraq.

9:52 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: You're right, Dave. Going off that, I think that a prime characteristic of this campain has been the ease with which the candidates substitute Afghanistan for Iraq and vice versa. Somehow being tough on Afghanistan makes up for Iraq?

They're both full of Muslim people, right? Same deal I guess.

9:51 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: This is important -- Mac had a senior moment when he thought that the PM of Spain was some Latin American leader

9:51 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: and her hair looks fabulous!

9:51 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Joe Biden's record started skipping...

9:50 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Palin is rocking that flag. Kudos on the patriotism governor.

9:49 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: But Jordan makes a really salient point -- Biden and Obama's hawkishness on Afghanistan (and Pakistan) is good inoculation against claims they're too dovish on Iraq.

9:49 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I think that Palin, who has had the head of Jews for Jesus speak at her church, should can it on Israel.

9:48 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Katie, I guess the same point applied for Obama when it comes to McCain's record on the war.

Yeah, four more years of nookoolar might not be tolerable.

9:48 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: New-CLEAR! Jeepers creepers. But honestly, I bet NUCULAR is as calculated as anything else.

9:48 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Palin just associated herself with an Al-Qaeda leader. Never a good idea. Seem 9/11, War in Iraq.

9:48 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Did someone prep her to say "NEW-cular" like George W. Bush?

9:47 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: YES YES YES YES NUCULAR!

9:47 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden comes back with a strong answer on Afghanistan. He uses good hawkish rhetoric on Afghanistan that will resonate with independent voters.

9:47 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: If Biden knows where Bin Laden lives, why doesn't he go capture him?

9:46 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: It's easy for a woman who has never held an office of great significance to criticize her opponent's political record. But we all know that...

9:46 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: You better believe those comments Biden made on McCain vs Obama in the primary will come out in campaign videos before election day

9:45 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden screws up by repeating what he said in the previous question. It's amazing to see him mess up an answer on his supposed area of expertise.

"I love him??" Enough! Point goes to Palin.

9:44 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin made a great point about Biden's remark in the primary debates that Obama wasn't ready to be commander-in-chief. Kudos.

9:43 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Palin on the offensive. ouch. Surrender!

9:43 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Damn, Palin just hit Biden on his strong point.

Will he hit back with equal fervor?

9:41 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: But I think your point is interesting, Dave. The issue of giving basic privileges to homosexual couples is increasing a non-issue.

Yes, the "redefinition of marriage" is still a hot button issue. But tolerance for homosexuality is a different kind of discussion entirely.

9:41 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: I don't think gay marriage is as big an issue in this election as it was in 2004. The economy dominates.

David makes a good point about the gay marriage issue.

9:40 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: What's interesting is that the Republican position on gay marriage has moderated slightly while the Democratic position remains far too moderate.

9:40 pm by Sam Levine [7]: This country is so Puritanical. How it is possible that more than half of this country can't come to terms with same-sex marriage? Can't we focus on a more important issue? Like the trillions of dollars in deficit we'll owe after this war and economic crisis?

9:39 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Let's move on to gay marriage though. I think this is one area where college students are far ahead of the candidates.

9:39 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Joe Biden is a coward.

How can you support privileges for homosexual couples and not their right to join in a civil union.

I hate this country...

9:39 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Is this a surprise, Barack Obama nor Biden support gay marriage on a federal level?

9:39 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: She won't say it's caused by people, though.

9:38 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: And this country needs to see a commitment to a Manhattan project for renewable energy, and tax credits for renewable energy, etc. Not more oil.

9:38 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: She acknowledges global warming is occurring (although in this decade the atmosphere has not gotten warmer) and she has solutions. What else could you ask for?

9:38 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Drilling is a further, ahem, marriage of our country to fossil fuels. not what most people want to hear.

9:37 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Right, CEOs set the price of oil. Has nothing to do with cartel pricing...

9:36 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: She knows a lot about energy, Jordan, but for moderate voters, an energy policy that refuses to acknowledge global warming and high gas prices and oil companies fleecing everyday Americans and whose central tenet is "drill baby, drill" is far from a strong point.

9:36 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Drilling is a positive, and both candidates are for it,so I don't think I understand why you consider it a negative...

9:35 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin hits on her strong point, energy.

Biden might get himself into trouble talking about his previous votes. Gaffe city?

9:35 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I cannot BELIEVE she just cited "Drill, baby, drill!" as a positive. It is an embarrassment. and the only people "All across this country" who have chanted it are the corporate titans at the RNC.

9:34 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: "hundreds of trillions" - Palin

That's precious.

9:33 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Oh, I thought Obama wanted to invest in "unsafe nuclear"

9:33 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Speaking of the polar ice cap, Sarah Palin was one of the few politicians to come out against the Polar Bear Protection Act of 2006.

9:33 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I can't believe Palin is lauding the American approach to combatting climate change. Bringing other nations on board? Is she kidding?

9:32 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Sarah Palin on climate change: I live in Alaska, the only artic state. Did you know that she also watched Vladimir "I saw God in his soul" Putin fly over the artic state?

9:32 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Saying "we have a problem" does not qualify you to have the right solution. Congress is largely democrats, if we're placing blame, there's a good place to start.

9:32 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Not only responsibility, Katie, but also judgment. If a corporation's looking to hire a turnaround artist, you don't hire the exec who got you into the hole in the first place. John McCain's support of the war from the beginning is relevant because the presidency is about judgment and character.

9:30 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin is starting to get aggressive, this is what she needs to do.

9:30 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I disagree, Rachel. It's integral to determine who was responsible for formulating destructive policy. The old "let's look foward" debate is an easy way for Republicans to sidestep the issue of responsibility.

9:30 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Hmm. Perhaps that's because she doesn't know what a subprime mortgage crisis is?

9:29 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Sarah Palin has decided that she will make the debate format

9:29 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: But let's try to bring this back for a moment, guys. We're a half an hour in. Objectively, who's winning?

At the very least, Palin is holding her own — especially given the Hindenburg-esque expectations. What do you think, guys?

9:29 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Right, but why not an American company?

9:28 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Joe Biden is repeating himself on the subprime mortgage crisis...who cares who identified it was a problem--what are you going to do about it?

9:28 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Conventional wisdom of VP picks is to choose a candidate who compliments the presidential nominee. Palin does that and has riled up the conservative base. The RNC took in $66 million in September a new record.

9:27 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: I'd rather a private company be able to build the pipeline then have the government build it.

9:26 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Palin taking on oil and gas? Joke. Just this August, she gave a Canadian [8] company the rights to build a $27 billion pipeline. And with due respect to Katie, at least the pipeline could be American-made.

9:25 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Obama was about change and then chose Biden, who has been in the Senate for years

9:24 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Sarah Palin is a living example of Senator McCain "saying one thing, then going back on it, and saying the opposite"--to paraphrase her brilliance. McCain was all about experience first, and then chose Mrs. Palin, the most unqualified VP choice in the history of this country.

9:24 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Sarah Palin vs. Greed.

9:22 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden did a good sidestep there by claiming to cut the increase of foreign assistance. No one cares about that issue. There will obviously be other cuts.

9:21 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: "McCain will tax health care," plus the Bridge to Nowhere crack? Biden's on fire.

9:21 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: What if you get fired? Will you be without insurance? Will you have to switch providers when you get a new job?

9:19 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Democrats control Congress, but we get the point.

9:19 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Senator McCain has a "good" health plan. Did you know that McCain's plan won't cost Americans anything? Just ask Sarah Palin.

9:19 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: She just made a crack about the way the federal government has been running things lately. Sorry which party is in power now?

9:18 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Palin does a good job calling out Biden's remark about the patriotism of paying taxes.

Although Gwen Ifill just held her hand in taking her over to healthcare.

9:17 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Speaking of FWS, Sam, Slate [9] has a feature that attempts to diagram Palin's sentences from the Couric interviews.

9:16 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: lower taxes, limited government, country first

9:16 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: It shows where her priorities lie and what she stands for

9:16 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: And, really who cares what her trackrecord as mayor is? There's no parallel to be drawn between smalltown Alaska and the federal government. Whether or not she reduced taxes as a mayor is absolutely irrelevant.

9:16 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Internet just went down for a bit, Time Warner is a joke, shows you the efficiency of monopolies.

9:15 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Learn how to 'spoke' English

9:15 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I know it's classic spin doctor dogma to "reject the premise of the question," but SP does this to a fault. Voters saw through her refusal to answer with Couric and they'll see through it now.

9:15 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Sarah Palin needs to take a freshmen writing seminar.

9:15 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: That cut off was ridiculous

9:13 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I think that it was smart of Biden to bring up healthcare. And it was very very silly of Palin to turn down the opportunity to respond to his charge.

9:11 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: "Joe Six Pack" and "maverick" have each made their first of probably too many appearances. The thrust of which is that McCain is Clint Eastwood and the American voter is...Homer Simpson?

9:10 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: He can talk all he wants about John McCain being out of touch, but Sarah Palin--union member, soccer mom, small town girl--gets the needs of an average American. She is very articulate in explaining John McCain's policies, an interesting question would be where she differs from him on the issues.

9:08 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: This spin is the biggest malarkey of all time. Mac's "fundamentals of the economy" meant the workforce? Yeah right.

9:08 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate, so much for "reaching across the aisle."

9:07 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Shit. Biden just pulled an old man move - getting confused by the debate rules.

9:06 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: She looks terrified.

"The barometer is going to be resounding."

What the hell does that mean?

9:06 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden hits the policy, Palin appears to be pulling at the heartstrings.

9:05 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Big bad CEOs. The Democrats have entered the house.

9:04 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Biden needs to lay off the self-tanner.

9:04 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Guarantee you "can I call you Joe?" has been planned by her handlers for three weeks

9:03 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Sam's computer crapped out due to his insolent comments.

9:03 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: She is a genius.

Guess that answers our question about whether or not she'll be too stiff.

9:03 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: O M G. "Can I call you Joe?"

Brilliant.

9:03 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: "Hey, can I call you Joe?"

9:02 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: These debate rules are pretty badass. Is there going to be ANY opportunity for these two to go at it?

9:02 pm by Sam Levine [7]: I don't think she comes out on top if she forms a complete sentence Fabian. Maybe if she mentions a newspaper or two...but a 3 year old can complete a sentence.

9:02 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: So now that the commentary's gone, what channel are we watching? CNN for the debate-o-meter?

9:02 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Oh no, CNN has posted "analyst scorecards." What's next?

9:02 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Oh, the veep debate. I think Palin's a huge huge draw.

9:01 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Yes, Sam. We have 57 million viewers.

9:01 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Right. Again, expectations for her are very low If she forms a complete sentence she comes out on top.

The most watched VP debate was Bush vs. Ferraro in 1984.

9:01 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Ifill's in a wheelchair due to a broken leg, btw.

9:00 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Right. The Couric interview, with each new day of released material, has been absolutely bruising.

9:00 pm by Sam Levine [7]: Do we think more people are watching this debate than the Presidential debate?

9:00 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: It's kind of paradoxical.

It's her biggest test yet... but she's screwed up so bad already that I'm not sure she has anything more to lose.

8:59 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: He ran for the head of the Liberal party and lost.

8:59 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Agreed Katie. Fox said the McCain campaign took Palin to McCain's ranch in Sedona for three days to calm the nerves. This is her biggest test yet.

8:58 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Lest we forget, all-time Cornell hockey hero Ken Dryden '67 [10] was a Canadian cabinet minister as well as a Stanley Cup (and NCAA champion) goalie.

8:57 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I actually think the point being made on Fox has some validity. How hard has the McCain team prepped Palin and is she going to appear stiff tonight?

8:57 pm by Sam Levine [7]: 'Fair and Balanced!'

8:57 pm by Sam Levine [7]: I'm watching fox news right now. I'm going to kill Fabian.

8:57 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: All-Star panel on Fox News right now, Barnes, Kondracke, Kristol, Kristen Powers...

8:55 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Anyone speak French?

8:55 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Stephen Harper can see Alaska from his house!

8:55 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Well I couldn't resist.

And those Canadian PM debates get pretty violent. Anyone want to blog the Canadian elections?

8:54 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Nice job poisoning the well.

How about those Canadian PM debates??

8:53 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Totally sexist! Let's stick to the men. Like Brit Hume and his carrot-orange tan.

8:52 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Yeah, boys. Let's talk about Biden's hair plugs.

But make sure we don't suggest Palin's powdering her nose. Because that would be sexist... right?

8:52 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: A Brit Hume appearance, finally!!

8:52 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I'd say 90 minutes at least.

8:52 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: What is also interesting is that Ifill's book has been google-able on Amazon for months — and yet the McCain campaign just brought it up 36 hours ago. I'm sure Gwen will, cognizant of this, be very careful to appear disinterested.

8:51 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Sam just thought of that one in the shower.

Over/under on how much time Biden spends on the hair plugs before TV appearances... 45 minutes?

8:49 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: Whoopi Goldberg has ruined The View. But that's a whole other blog...

8:48 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: And yes, Dave - I saw the promo. Maybe the show will be about adventures in Hucktown

8:48 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Since when did "The View" become so politically current?

8:47 pm by Rachel Quigley [5]: I have internet!

I think the most interesting thing to see this debate is how the moderator behaves now that her partisanship has been revealed.

Gwen Ifill is the author of a forthcoming book celebrating the politics and career of Senator Barack Obama. Her book is titled The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama, and is scheduled to be published on Inauguration Day—January 20, 2009. She obviously has both an ideological and a financial interest in the success of the Obama-Biden campaign, one of the parties to this debate. If that isn’t a clear conflict of interest, I don’t know what would be.

8:47 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Ok, we'll agree to disagree. But the point about Palin proving herself is true.

Another issue to watch is the choice of PBS's Gwen Ifill as the moderator. The conservative blogosphere has been up in arms over her selection [11], noting her new book due out on Inauguration Day entitled “The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama.”

It's unlikely that she will ask overtly biased questions, but it does make you wonder. For a journalist, or for that matter anyone who cares about this debate, the conflict of interest [12] is completely unsettling.

8:46 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I disagree that he has to make it about Barack to come out on top. This debate is very much a test of Sarah Palin. If McCain is elected and he croaks, this broad could very well take charge. And people know that.

Biden needs to hit home how absolutely incapable she is as a diplomatic leader. This debate is about the Veeps.

8:44 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Has anyone seen fmr. Ark. Gov. Mike Huckabee's new Fox show "Huckabee," yet? They just promo'd it.

I hear he breaks out his electric bass.

8:44 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: He needs to make this about Barack. But another Palin gaffe or two couldn't hurt.

8:43 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Right, and like I suggested before, Biden was selected to be pretty inobtrusive.

8:42 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: I actually think keeping the focus on the presidential candidates will be more effective. The candidates need to remind the voters why their ticket is the best. Voters quickly forget about these debates, especially since they conduct only one of them.

8:39 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I resent that.

I agree with you that Palin has to bounce back. But I think she's in a kind of unique position here in that there isn't ANYTHING she can say that will surprise us.

Joe Biden needs to make sure he's focused in his attack. Biden vs. Palin - we can declare the winner already. Biden needs to keep the debate centered on the VP candidates and steer it away from attacks on Obama and McCain.

8:37 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Also, when's the last time Bill O'Reilly ever referred to "the dreaded sexism?" I thought it was his stock in trade.

8:36 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Biden has to keep his head down. Expectations for Palin are so low that the smallest gaffe on his part will be blown out of proportion.

A lot of the conventional wisdom also suggests that Biden should keep the focus on the presidential candidates.

That said, Sarah Barracuda is coming to play. Biden needs to be able to hit back, too, when he needs to.

8:35 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Ok, let's get serious for a moment. What does each VP candidate have to do to make this debate a success for the campaign?

In my opinion, Palin has to get past her vacation from hell with Katie Couric. She has to reconnect with the television audience like she did during the RNC. Hitting Obama and going on the offensive will probably help her come out as a more trustworthy public figure. Those poll numbers [13] up.

What does Biden have to do, my pinko colleagues?

8:34 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Speaking of her political image, Katie, many stories suggest her designer specs are selling out [14]

8:34 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Is Bill O'Reilly really promo-ing his new book?

8:32 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: A technical point - Wolf has just informed me that it as a "magic map"

8:31 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Keith: "Palin went to four colleges and nobody ever mentioned Dredd Scott"

8:30 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Magic screen is closely rivaled by Keith Olbermann's '77 "Worst Person in the World" feature. On now.

8:30 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: "CNN FACT: Palin has a journalism degree."

That's why she has been so successful at crafting her political image...

8:28 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: "And then we're going to have the nose tackle run the ball in a figure 8 formation"

8:28 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: I love the magic screen. Everyone loves the magic screen.

8:28 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Uh oh, the Situation Room just whipped out their touch-screen map. This is almost as brilliant as their "perception analyzer."

8:27 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: I'm not sure the silent majority is as enamored of Barney as I am, but if there's anyone who plays into O'Reilly's combative style — and at the same time is at the heart of the response to the financial crisis — he's it. So it's an ingenious choice, at the least.

8:26 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Is the pope Catholic?

8:26 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Will Fox's decision to play this interview during the pre-debate coverage jack up their ratings for the debate?

8:24 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Barney "Yeah, well this is why your stupidity gets in the way of a rational discussion."

8:24 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Wow that hand wave looked a lot like a certain wartime salute...

8:24 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Billo is about to reach escape velocity.

8:23 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: COWARD!!! HE'S A COWARD!!

8:22 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Barney Frank and Bill O'Reilly in a clash of the titans right now.

8:22 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Second that on the Situation Room. Someone needs to get Rove (Fox), Gergen (CNN) and Buchanan (MSNBC) in the same room so they can all have a meltdown together.

8:21 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: It's possible, although Rove played that down on the Factor, saying that a major gaffe might hurt even worse.

8:21 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: But the idea here is that Bush Sr. tarnished his image in his debate vs. Ferraro. Is it possible that Joe Biden will come across paternalistic when debating someone who is clearly his intellectual inferior?

8:20 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Biden better not say that Hillary should be on stage instead of himself.

P.s. How ridiculous can the set of "The Situation Room" get? They are going to be hanging from bungee cords next.

8:19 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: And that's true about women in debates — remember Rick Lazio? Of course you don't. Because he crashed and burned after he was seen to have patronized Hillary during their U.S. Senate race.

But to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton.

8:19 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Ferraro has been in the news since the summer when she first suggested help pay back Clinton's campaign debts, drawing the ire of the left.

And yes Dave, the Obama poster does reek of a little cult of personality cult of personality [15].

8:17 pm by Katie Engelhart [4]: Thank you for the welcome, Dave. And thanks for the warning, Jordan. Serious sniping…

Dave you’re right in saying that Ferraro is everywhere! I’m watching CNN’s pre-coverage of the debate right now and it’s all about the ladies.

These commentators are suggesting that Joe Biden has to be especially careful while debating Palin – they warn that men in the past have “ruined” their political careers because of the way they behave when they’re facing off against a woman.

8:17 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: They showed a preview of the Frank interview on Fox Report with Sheppard Smith... it's dynamite

8:17 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Also: Billo announces that Barney Frank is "mad at The Factor, and we're mad at him."

This is going to be fun.

8:16 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Ferraro to O'Reilly: "It's Palin vs. Palin right now."

!) Ferraro has suddenly been all over the television

2) True? I think so. None of us would be as interested in this if it didn't feature the subject of those SNL skits. Can you imagine what the ratings would have been for Biden vs. Romney?

8:14 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: These McCain-Palin signs in the crowd behind Chris Matthews just now were black and yellow. Why? What country are they running for president of, Flanders? [16]. As creepy as I find these, I can't imagine that the other side finds those Obey Giant Obama signs [17] any less so.

8:12 pm by Jordan Fabian [6]: Hey everyone,

The pre-debate coverage is starting to heat up. CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News all have dedicated coverage airing right now.

If only they could put Olbermann and O'Reilly in a cage so they can duke it out...

Karl Rove just went on the Factor and said Joe biden is "genetically presdisposed to make gaffes every other day."

Get ready for some serious sniping.

8:03 pm by David Wittenberg [3]: Welcome to The Sun's second debate live blog of this election cycle. Tonight, Sarah Palin and Joe Biden square off at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo.

I'm David Wittenberg, The Sun's associate editor (I run the opinion section). Our panel of analysts for tonight's debate also includes:

Katie Engelhart, Sun Senior Editor, Opinion

Sam Levine, Editor in Chief, The Cornell Progressive

Jordan Fabian, Editor at Large, The Cornell Review, and

Rachel Quigley, Review Staff Writer and Sun Contributing Columnist

Strap in tight — this is going to be quite a ride. And thanks for watching!